Wickham Goes POP!

[Pete]

Hi.
Does anyone remember the Wickham Goes POP! concert at Wickham Halls, Sussex Road, West Wickham in 1963?

The night consisted of a variety of local bands, including my own, The Aces, but with the notable exception of one particular band going on to become slightly more famous than the rest - a certain Davy Jones and his band The Konrads, soon to become David Bowie!

Ok, many of you will already know this, and that Peter Frampton was there also with his band The Trubeats; but for me, personally, whilst I already knew Peter was there I only learned David Bowie was part of The Konrads in recent years after watching a Bowie documentry on TV!!!


Anyway, the purpose of this post is - as the youngest band we were one of the first to appear so got to sit back and watch the 'bigger boys' perform from an audience perspective... it was while doing this, and I can remember the 'feeling' to this day, watching this tall thin bloke on the sax and thinking... "That's what I wanna be when I grow up"..... . I had no idea who he was, he was just one of the band members, but for some reason he stood out; I have no idea why but the memory has stayed with me and it wasn't until I saw the documentry that I put two and two together and realised just who that tall thin guy was, or was to become!

Ok, I never got to be a rock star like Sir Dave, but I did get to make my living from music from that day to this, so I guess my ambition was fulfilled in part, if not all!


Over the years I often wondered if anyone ever took any photos that night.... then, on browsing a certain Reunited site I spotted our old bass player who I hadn't seen since the time. He promptly sent me the photograph I'd always wanted, that of our little band, taken by his Mum on that very stage, that very night!

I then did a web search of "Wickham Goes POP" and found David Bowie had actually mentioned the gig in his gig history.. he didn't have the exact date so I contacted the site and passed it on, 24th October 1963.
www.bowiewonderworld.com/press/60/63wickham.htm
It was nice to see our name (The Aces) mentioned on his site, it felt quite a buzz realising I had actually 'supported' the one and only David Bowie, and at my first ever gig, him albeit Davy Jones at the time!
Hey, that's still kinda kool!


I then, did another search and found an auction of some old Bowie memorabilia, this including some old photographs - one taken on the very same stage on the very same night, the only difference being The Konrads had their own backdrops and props standing around.

There were actually two gigs, a "Wickham Goes POP 2" in the November '63 and I believe this was the second (this one also shown on David's gig list for 1963) but it was mostly the same bands that played. Everything on the stage was identical which was nice as it just confirmed what we had read.

Sadly, just weeks ago I learned that Wickham Halls had burnt down, or at least the roof and interior were badly damaged... I had intended ringing them to ask if I could take a look round back stage etc, but as usual these days I put it off to another day, a day too long in this case, unfortunately.

Oh well, that's it, I hope someone will find this interesting or maybe even remember the gig?

Pete (still Rockin' after all these years!)
;D

[nigel]

I remember seeing the floor goining up and down about to give way at a church hall where the Conrads played, I was about 10 . I got exactly the same impression, watching David on sax doing 'Hippy Hippy shakes thinking at the time.. Oh right so that's what it's about !!.

or was Wickham Halls where Richard Chamberlain of Dr Kildare fame > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chamberlain made an appearance at a Trubeat gig ? organised by one of the Trubeats parents to pull kids into the gig? heh, don't remember who's dad was the pushy one but I do remember Peter Frampton's dad wanting him to get a proper job .

I went to Pickhurst primary school with Peter he will remember me and my brother Chris ,can't say our sir name here though.

Another gig you might remember
How about the School hall at the Junction of Gates Green road Coney Hall ?

[Pete]

Hi Nigel, what a great response, thanks for the input!
What's most interesting, is that you mention the gig at the school hall on Gates Green Road (Wickham Common Junior School)....
I can confirm that was the 25th July 1963, and that is was my group (The ACES) that played!
Were you there???
If so, that's amazing as i have never heard from one person who was!

Regarding the Richard Chamberlain thing....
I do know one of The Truebeats was Alan Chamberlain, so I imagine it was his father you are referring to, although I have no knowledge of the connection to the actor Richard Chamberlain.
Interesting none-the-less, as I wasn't aware of that promotional move!

I do recall Peter's father wanting him to get a 'proper job', though a tad ironic now as he went on to fare far better than he might have in any so-called 'proper job'!
Good for him, I always knew he would become a star.

Re David on sax.... yes, that was a very significant moment in my (soon to be) musical career, and I can relate to your having similar thoughts... he really stood out from the rest, he really was "what it was all about"!


Just out of interest Nigel.... did you ever live on Hartfield Crescent, opposite Wickham Common School?

Thanks again, please add anything else you can recall.
Pete

[nigel]

Turning right into Gates Green road from Croydon road the gig was about 30 yards down on the right , I do remember onetime I just hung around outside testing out my Beatle jacket and that could easily have been on 25th July 1963.

Wickham Common Primary School ,google maps say it is farther down Gates Green road so I guess we must be talking about the same Junior school.

Terrance Nicholson is a name that springs to mind btw , he was at Hayes school a year above me and played bass with the Trubeats . ( Gadsden) www.hayes.bromley.sch.uk/index.html .

The backbone of the Trubeat audience seemed to be mostly those who hailed from Pickhurst school who like me then went to Hayes at the age of eleven. Pickhurst junior school would have seen Peter in a one off assembly performance playing a five minute tune on Banjo ,that was the first time I knew he played an instrument, my brother Chris read a poem in another morning assembly which was stopped for being too long .

A regular at a Trubeat gig would remember an audience participation number they called Jet Black , the phrase Jet black was repeated three times by the band after which the audience yelled back ' Get Stuffed '...which was really silly ! don't ask me how that got stuck in my mind .

I read somewhere about The 'Bromley Contingent' which described Punk gigs as rowdy and new , if only they knew what had gone before .
The pushy parent thing was very apparent though not a bad thing, R Chamberlain's teen idol image publicised appearance was a bit odd I admit , for a start he was 20 years older than Trubeat fans ,it must have been just a coincidence regarding the shared sir name .
R Chamberlain looked bemused and said very little,I doubt he knew what he was letting himself in for and I don't think he stayed long .
The Trubeats were very young to organize gigs at Church and school halls,I recon grown ups were involved but tell me otherwise if you know ,also I don't think the band lasted more than 18 months before breaking up .

More than 40 years after the event, but apparently it needed to be exorcised I performed a half finished ditty at Brighton Zap club about catching a 138 bus using the phrase foggy nights in the country in the lyric , Gates Green road sprang to mind at the time of writing it.

Jul 21, 2010 22:46:03 GMT 1 Pete said:

Just out of interest Nigel.... did you ever live on Hartfield Crescent, opposite Wickham Common School?

Nope ,we lived on the ground floor of a Victorian mansion in Bromley, the house was converted into three flats and my folks sold their share of the lease in about 1973 .
Built in 1884 with lawns , gardens , orchard and summerhouse, the original boundary of the house started at Westmoreland road and bits of land were sold over the years for new houses making 'Woodside' number 10 at South Hill road become number 26 South Hill road .
. Like many huge Victorian properties in Bromley this perfect place once fit for a wealthy family and team of servants and gardeners was eventually demolished in the 1990's, an apartment block can be seen on the corner of Durham avenue and South Hill road now .

one for the book > Only children can fully appreciate those Crabapple wars fought in neglected suburban orchards.

[Pete]

Hi Nigel, sorry for the slow response, we're trying to sell the house up here in sunny Lincolnshire in a desperate attempt to return to civilisation and I just don't know where the time goes.
Another great reply, thanks once again for the input.

Ok, firstly... just to confirm dates to places...
The Wickham Common School gig The Aces played was the one on the 25th July 1963.
The Wickham Goes Pop gigs (2) were at Wickham Halls, Sussex Road, off Wickham High Street; these were in October and November 1963.
UPDATE: I can now confirm the second (November) Wickham Goes Pop show was in fact at The Assembly Rooms, Gates Green Road, Coney Hall, and NOT at Wickham Halls as I stated above.
See also my update in a later post below - complete with poster!

The gig you refer to some 30 yards into gates Green Rd from Croydon Road was the Assembly Rooms, and there were several put on there, some definitely involved The Trubeats, but unfortunately I can't put dates to these.

Re Terry Nicholson...
Yes, he was in my class at Hayes and I remember him well.. he went out with the girl of my dreams (everybody in the school's dreams I think! ) - Wendy Nichols, and I believe he married her; I'd like to know where they are now as it would be interesting to talk about our early band experiences.
Speaking of which.. I wonder if Peter (Frampton) ever spots stuff like this in Forums such as this??? Wouldn't it be a treat to find a response by him one day!!!


Re the Crabapple wars... I remember them well!!! ;D

Thanks again for the memories.
Pete

[nigel]

No problems about posting the memories but remembering what I can say and what I can't say is another thing altogether. I mean I would always remember to write a paragraph about Mr Big the Headmaster at Hayes while not forgetting the word nutter . Perhaps years of teaching kids made him appear that way, but then again looking back Mr Harmer at Pickhurst Primary was also a nutter . They knew each other in the teaching profession, I know this because it was audibly mentioned at Pickhurst ,the kids who failed the eleven plus would have the opportunity to go to a new modern school called Hayes, perfectly suitable for us and furthermore the headmasters knew each other . My Mother on the other hand knew how Chris and I fought as brothers, she had the foresight to separate us in the choice of new big school and informed Mr Harmer of her decision. The ensuing result was that Chris was dragged into Mr Harmer's study and given a test of the three R's . A very agitated Mr nutter fearing that the child would reflect a lack of basic education which would embarrass him to the head of Hawe's Down , a school who's headmaster he did not know . He needn't have worried, Chris was very bright except at one dinner time meal when Mr nutter walked between the dining room tables asking the kids if the meal was alright . As usual most kids replied yes, self preservation usually meant my brother would say the same but when Chris murmured a joke he had thought at the time that Mr nutter had moved on to the next table "No ! it's muck"said Chris and nobody laughed.. sadly Mr nutter hadn't moved on but was in fact standing right behind him.... I remember seeing a figure being dragged out of the dining room by Mr Harmer , heads swiveled and chairs spun in their wake .
The violent behavior of Headmasters like Mr Harmer and Mr Big and the masters Mr Priest and Mr Logan at Hayes differed in application, as did the sad female teachers who pandered to these violent charactors by sending kids to visit them , finding the class room in the middle of a lesson full of kids and thrashed in front of them , then having to say thank you Mr Nutter .
I hold up three digits on one hand for the school teachers that redeemed the aforementioned in my school experience , bless your memory Mr Dibble (sport) from Pickhurst Primary , Miss Denny (art) Mr Harris (metalwork) from Hayes .

Best with moving by the way, more later .

[Pete]

An interesting account re. your "Mr Nutter" Nigel...
I had my very own 'Mr Nutter' whilst at Hawes Down school, the result of which lead me to being transferred to Hayes school.
As we're kind of off-topic here, the story is quite well documented and can be found on the Hawes Down memories page on Friendsreunited if you're interested.
Such a shame we had to endure 'people' like this as they certainly left their mark, but hey, we got through it; maybe if there was more discipline these days we wouldn't be in the situation we are in, but I will never be convinced the tactics of these ******** worked in any positive way, and I like to think they would never get away with it in another lifetime.
They were certainly not the best days of my life, that's for sure.

[nigel]

I heard from my brother Chris some pretty graphic stories about Hawes Down ,I am interested but I can't locate it from your directions to the post .

[Pete]

I shouldn't worry about it Nigel, it's possibly not even there now as I added it way back when the site first started up... it's probably long since been deleted, and best forgotten anyway, really.

[Pete]

UPDATE to my original theory as to the location of the TWO 1963 Wickham Goes Pop concerts.

I initially thought BOTH concerts were staged at Wickham Halls, Sussex Road, West Wickham, but I can now 100% confirm the 2nd show was at the Assembley Rooms, Gates Green Road, Coney Hall. on the 21st November 1963.

I recently aquired a poster with the all the details, so I'll attempt to post it here.
Pete

Attachments:

[nigel]

1963 Bloody Hell Pete ! well done, the venue is etched in my mind.
I don't remember that particular event as I wasn't there,but like I said before, the Konrads with Bowie on Sax at a packed gig it wasn't easily forgettable.

.....Utube comments are interesting.

[Pete]

What a great find Nigel, I'm just looking into this!

I remember the old Scout hut in Bromley as we used to rehearse there too; not with The Aces, but a slightly later band of mine called The Misfits, in 1964. This was on Masons Hill (assuming the poster of the video is referring to the same hut, of course), but I do know we all used to practice in the same place, including The Konrads and The Trubeats (with Pete Frampton).
I'll add some bits to the Youtube post in the hope someone else adds to it.

Glad you liked the Wickham Goes Pop poster, I was really pleased to find that as there's conflicting opinion as to where the second concert was actually held, and this has cleared it up. I was at both of course, but even I thought both shows were at Wickham Halls, Sussex Road... just shows how time plays tricks on the old memory.
;D

[nigel]

  Wickham Hall 24 Oct 63
↓

The Aces, the youngest group taking part, were surprisingly good, and deserve a word of praise for tackling not only two well-known Shadows' numbers, but also for composing their own.

www.helden.org.uk/w/WickhamHall24Oct63.htm

[Pete]

Mar 14, 2013 20:03:42 GMT 1 nigel said:

  Wickham Hall 24 Oct 63
↓

The Aces, the youngest group taking part, were surprisingly good, and deserve a word of praise for tackling not only two well-known Shadows' numbers, but also for composing their own.

www.helden.org.uk/w/WickhamHall24Oct63.htm

Yes, that was real Rock n Roll!

I can remember playing the originals, and that they were written by Martin Knell, but sadly no memory of how they went or what they were called.

[chrisjeepman]

I remember Wickham Goes Pop very well. Terry Nicholson was my pal at Pickhurst, but became very involved with his band, The Truebeats. He and his pal Pete Frampton would practice at Pete's house in Woodlea Drive. Meanwhile I was becoming more and more taken with my chosen sport, cycle racing and also being a member of 22nd Bromley 3rd Hayes Scout Group and learning to cook over an open fire at Wiberforce Camp near Biggin Hill.

My home town was Bromley, and I would cycle frantically each day the three or four miles to school using the Red Lodge Road route across Beckenham Golf Course. Usually late for school, I was given three strokes across the backside by Mr Powell or Mr Brent on more than one occasion for being late - often in front of the whole school who were queuing at attention in their year groups on the playground awaiting to go to registration. On standing up one had to say 'thank you' for the caning, and this tested one's ability not to 'lose it' to the limit, because it hurt like bloody hell!

Terry and I lost touch when I went on to Hawes Down aged 11 or 12, while Pete went on to Bromley technical School where I understand his dad was a teacher there.

Wickham Goes Pop I believe was organised by Rhett Davies' dad, Ray. Ray Davies played lead trumpet on a hit record called Legions Last patrol, the theme tune to a film of the same name. I left Hawes Down in 1963/64 for a job at Corkscrew Hill Garage to learn panelbeating - car body repairs in today's terminology - while Rhett I believe went on to produce records, including Bryan Ferry, (but don't quote me!).

All these healthy, boyhood pursuits came to an abrupt halt with the discovery of a new and exciting pass-time in 1964....girls!

Ahhhh....happy days!